GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: Jimmgc51 on 17 September 2013, 09:15
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Started the car this morning it turned over about 6 times and then decided to start. It moved to its fast idle but only for about a third of the time it usually does and then it dropped down to a rough juddering (best described) idle. I gave it a little gas and it seems to go when the RPM raises but then drops back into the same idle.
I turned it off and back on again same start as before had to turn it over a number of times then rough idle. So safe to say the cars at home and I've took the spare and also safe to say there is a problem but thought id put it out there and see if anyone may have a simple solution for there is a lot of knowledge on this forum and I don't really know much at all about cars and would be nice saving a pointless trip to the garage.
So is there some things I could check I was thinking spark plug maybe (although they were all changed last year), coil pack anything else???
Could it be bad fuel, I had just filled up with a full tank and then drove straight home and I noticed last night the car took a little longer to start when I needed to move it slightly but thought nothing of it! (Don't want to brand drop in case its not this but its one of the best fuels available from a reputable supplier ;-)
Any help would be appreciated, if not will have to sign up to breakdown and call them out, don't really want to risk driving it in its current state.
For the record there is no warning lights or error's being displayed on the dash!
Thanks :smiley:
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you got VCDS to scan it? that would be a start.
Could be plugs or coils, but they usually give an error.
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What age and model is the GTI.
Wouldnt be suprised if its another case of the chain tensioner caused the timing chain to jump a couple of teeth on cold startup.
The car then retimes itself to try and keep it running. Making it do what you describe.
It could of cause just be as simple as a plug or coil pack..
Vagcom/vcds or vw dealer scan will show the cuase I suspect.
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What age and model is the GTI.
Wouldnt be suprised if its another case of the chain tensioner caused the timing chain to jump a couple of teeth on cold startup.
The car then retimes itself to try and keep it running. Making it do what you describe.
Yeah you've said exactly what I was thinking, didn't think though if this had happened it would keep starting, I started it 3 times this morning the final time to move it out of the way so I could get the other car out.
Anyhoo UPDATE it won't even start, tried again tonight made a weird sound from the left of the engine now nothing just turns over and over.
I actually called VW customer care UK last month about the tensioner and was told there is nothing wrong, added this to a recent post from another member who had just had his fixed by VW.
So need to join a breakdown service then give them a call after the allotted grace period and get it towed to VW.
Update to follow, fingers crossed its something else but my monies on the tensioner..
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Its an 09 May build with 55,000 on the clock. Sitting at about the perfect time for this fault....
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Sadly my moneys on the tensioner :cry: but keep us updated.
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Sadly my moneys on the tensioner :cry: but keep us updated.
Hope it's not the tensioner pal and is just an easy fix, like a coil pack or something
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This doesn't fill me with confidence. I hope it's an easy fix, but i fear the worst for you pal.
Keep us posted.
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I have everything crossed in getting our Mar '10 GTi to BMW on Friday as a trade in as this problem fills me with dread and seems to be getting more common.
Fingers crossed for you OP its something simple.
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Just keep everything crossed when you pick the BM up as they have similar issues as reported on watchdog a few months back.
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Thanks guys, yeah hope its something simple, its been taken to the dealer via tow rope, a nervous 5 mile trip!
Should be going in tomorrow firstly for diagnostics and then possible engine stripdown if they can't find the fault.
I shall keep the thread updated, I think information regarding this issue is best kept documented then for anyone else having the same issue in the furture have info about it and how it was resolved and ultimately how much its going to set you back :sad:
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So its official the tensioner has failed, engine has thrown some error codes, can't remeber from the call but something to do with cam and chain alignment. Now they want me to pay £1350 for engine strip down :shocked:
Iv'e started asking about goodwill and he said at this stage they can't say anything until the strip down is done and then there is no guarantee I will be offered anything. Pretty upset at the minute I was hoping for some kind of deal on the table at this early stage!
So I have spoken to VW CC and opened a case the only thing in my favour currently is the call I made to them two months ago telling them I think my tensioner is going and being told there is nothing wrong with them and the fact the dealer was told this also and said they said nothing is wrong.
So more news to follow after the engine has been dismantled...
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So its official the tensioner has failed, engine has thrown some error codes, can't remeber from the call but something to do with cam and chain alignment. Now they want me to pay £1350 for engine strip down :shocked:
Iv'e started asking about goodwill and he said at this stage they can't say anything until the strip down is done and then there is no guarantee I will be offered anything. Pretty upset at the minute I was hoping for some kind of deal on the table at this early stage!
So I have spoken to VW CC and opened a case the only thing in my favour currently is the call I made to them two months ago telling them I think my tensioner is going and being told there is nothing wrong with them and the fact the dealer was told this also and said they said nothing is wrong.
So more news to follow after the engine has been dismantled...
I can not believe this, not another.....How many is that now. Fricking ticking time bomb. Did you have any signs of it happening, rattle or owt?
Think im gonna pay that £269 and get it sorted before mine goes...
What was age and milage?
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So its official the tensioner has failed, engine has thrown some error codes, can't remeber from the call but something to do with cam and chain alignment. Now they want me to pay £1350 for engine strip down :shocked:
Iv'e started asking about goodwill and he said at this stage they can't say anything until the strip down is done and then there is no guarantee I will be offered anything. Pretty upset at the minute I was hoping for some kind of deal on the table at this early stage!
So I have spoken to VW CC and opened a case the only thing in my favour currently is the call I made to them two months ago telling them I think my tensioner is going and being told there is nothing wrong with them and the fact the dealer was told this also and said they said nothing is wrong.
So more news to follow after the engine has been dismantled...
Oh no not another one :shocked:
Really sorry to hear that mate and hope you manage to get them to accept at least a large chunk of the cost (should be all of it!). Obviously there's a lot of info and evidence of the problem on this forum which might hopefully be of some help.
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I can not believe this, not another.....How many is that now. Fricking ticking time bomb. Did you have any signs of it happening, rattle or owt?
Think im gonna pay that £269 and get it sorted before mine goes...
What was age and milage?
RocketRoss, if I were you I'd get yours sorted pronto before it goes
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Sorry I was correct.
Have a search of the 3 or so threads on here about it
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Good to meet you today jimmy even tho it was a flying visit,
Your car was just getting its tow rope on and was looking pretty sorry for itself :cry:
Put pressure on VWCS especially as you logged it a few months ago and they said not to worry all is fine with the tensioners :angry:
Have you got full dealer History ?
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I can not believe this, not another.....How many is that now. Fricking ticking time bomb. Did you have any signs of it happening, rattle or owt?
Think im gonna pay that £269 and get it sorted before mine goes...
What was age and milage?
RocketRoss, if I were you I'd get yours sorted pronto before it goes
Just sent this to JCT600 Peugeot who i bought it from with 1 years warranty in April
Hello Paul,
I would just like to bring an issue to your attention. In April I bought a VW Golf GTI 2.0l TSI from you guys.
Now over the past few months these cars (2.0l TSI Engine) have been suffering from timing chain failure problem. When it fails it causes catastrophic damage to the engine.
The whole engine needs to be stripped down and rebuilt / replaced with new parts. This is not a wear and tear part as it is supposed to last the life of the vehicle.
The problem is they are prone to early MK6 GTI's on 09, 59 and 10 plate cars (mine is a 59 plate). VW admit there was a design flaw and have updated the part twice since 09 but they are not willing to do a recall.
I am avid forum member on 3 Golf GTI forums and as you can see from the below post this is becoming a major problem. Over the 3 sites I visit, 3 GTI's have failed in two weeks.
VW have stuck them all with bills ranging from £1500 - £2500!!! dependant on damage.
At this point i am very scared, my engine sounds like it may have the early warning symptoms before it fails. As of now the engine is ok , but to prevent the timing chain failing it needs tightening and upgrading to the latest revision.
The cost of the upgrade from a VW specialist is around £480 all in. Now with the car been under warranty for another 7 months with you guys i think it would be a smart move to take preventative measures now, rather than it having to go under warranty.
I would be willing to contribute towards the costs as I am certain this needs to be sorted sooner rather than later.
Thanks for reading this email, I would be grateful if you could respond as soon as possible.
Thanks
Regards
Ross
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Just keep everything crossed when you pick the BM up as they have similar issues as reported on watchdog a few months back.
Brand new car with warranty, not concerned :smiley:
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Good point :grin:, That's one reason I took out the extended warranty on mine, not my problem.
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So its official the tensioner has failed, engine has thrown some error codes, can't remeber from the call but something to do with cam and chain alignment. Now they want me to pay £1350 for engine strip down :shocked:
Iv'e started asking about goodwill and he said at this stage they can't say anything until the strip down is done and then there is no guarantee I will be offered anything. Pretty upset at the minute I was hoping for some kind of deal on the table at this early stage!
So I have spoken to VW CC and opened a case the only thing in my favour currently is the call I made to them two months ago telling them I think my tensioner is going and being told there is nothing wrong with them and the fact the dealer was told this also and said they said nothing is wrong.
So more news to follow after the engine has been dismantled...
I can not believe this, not another.....How many is that now. Fricking ticking time bomb. Did you have any signs of it happening, rattle or owt?
Think im gonna pay that £269 and get it sorted before mine goes...
What was age and milage?
Yeah one day it just sounded different on startup, best I can describe is a rough start, then say if you stopped somewhere on a journey on starting it again (cos the engine is warm) it would start nicely.
That's what I noticed had changed but when you own a car you know when it starts differently then one day gone no warning!
I'd get it fixed I kinda regret not getting it done by an indy!!
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Good to meet you today jimmy even tho it was a flying visit,
Your car was just getting its tow rope on and was looking pretty sorry for itself :cry:
Put pressure on VWCS especially as you logged it a few months ago and they said not to worry all is fine with the tensioners :angry:
Have you got full dealer History ?
Likewise mate.
Yeah full VWSH but I bought second hand private from London but he and me have always kept it VW, I think Iv'e just miss understood this £1350 Iv'e kinda committed to pay this but I don't see why they have to fully strip a broken engine, its like flogging a dead horse!
Surely once the heads off if its damaged engine gone 2-3 hours work instead of the quoted £15 at £90 per hour (this is getting verified by VWCS)
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I can not believe this, not another.....How many is that now. Fricking ticking time bomb. Did you have any signs of it happening, rattle or owt?
Think im gonna pay that £269 and get it sorted before mine goes...
What was age and milage?
RocketRoss, if I were you I'd get yours sorted pronto before it goes
Just sent this to JCT600 Peugeot who i bought it from with 1 years warranty in April
Hello Paul,
I would just like to bring an issue to your attention. In April I bought a VW Golf GTI 2.0l TSI from you guys.
Now over the past few months these cars (2.0l TSI Engine) have been suffering from timing chain failure problem. When it fails it causes catastrophic damage to the engine.
The whole engine needs to be stripped down and rebuilt / replaced with new parts. This is not a wear and tear part as it is supposed to last the life of the vehicle.
The problem is they are prone to early MK6 GTI's on 09, 59 and 10 plate cars (mine is a 59 plate). VW admit there was a design flaw and have updated the part twice since 09 but they are not willing to do a recall.
I am avid forum member on 3 Golf GTI forums and as you can see from the below post this is becoming a major problem. Over the 3 sites I visit, 3 GTI's have failed in two weeks.
VW have stuck them all with bills ranging from £1500 - £2500!!! dependant on damage.
At this point i am very scared, my engine sounds like it may have the early warning symptoms before it fails. As of now the engine is ok , but to prevent the timing chain failing it needs tightening and upgrading to the latest revision.
The cost of the upgrade from a VW specialist is around £480 all in. Now with the car been under warranty for another 7 months with you guys i think it would be a smart move to take preventative measures now, rather than it having to go under warranty.
I would be willing to contribute towards the costs as I am certain this needs to be sorted sooner rather than later.
Thanks for reading this email, I would be grateful if you could respond as soon as possible.
Thanks
Regards
Ross
Keep us updated on the reply!!
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Sorry to hear this fella.
This is of no solace to you but I feared mine was going down the tensioner fail route - it's a very early June 09 model. It was making the classic rattly noise on start up so I was equally scared. Consequently, I had a new revised one fitted along with a new water pump for £530 at a well known independent specialist up here in the north. Even they had to fit it twice because the first one was faulty and sounded worse than the original. Anyway, when they stripped it they could see signs of wear on the plastic housing which is usually an early sign of wear.
Touching wood and hoping for the best, it sounds back to normal now on start up so I'm hoping I've got away with it. Not happy with having to pay £500 odd but have reconciled myself with the fact that if it was a normal cam belt driven engine I'd have had that and the water pump changed at 4 years old so I have likened it to that in my own mind (even though I know it is not the same).
VW really need to come clean with this and compensate customers of these early cars otherwise they will lose plenty of repeat custom. However, I fear we all know that they won't - they just need to look at the Mk 7 section to know how many of them they can sell!!!
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Having full VWSH is in your favour pal,
It's one excuse that they can't use against you :wink:
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Yeah no solace but I reckon in hindsight it would of been £500 well spent hopefully other people reading will take note and get there's done.
I made sure I got that line in though with VWCC "I have stuck to you service book and done every repair when asked, if you had put 4 year tensioner change in there I would of had it replaced 4 months ago"
Iv'e got a bit of ammo so just need to get the issue raised with VW directly now.
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What a nightmare, make sure you let us know the outcome from vw with labour and parts
I've got jan 2010 with 25k miles so reckon I have to start to think about what to do about this issue.
Would really like to know what others of similar aged cars have done and how much it cost them to rectify. If I can get for £300 I will probably get done for peace of mind I suppose.
Also need to add that doing a bit of reading on the net suggests the USA models are protected (and fully covered for this) under a 60k power train warranty. How come we don't get that in the uk?
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What a nightmare, make sure you let us know the outcome from vw with labour and parts
I've got jan 2010 with 25k miles so reckon I have to start to think about what to do about this issue.
Would really like to know what others of similar aged cars have done and how much it cost them to rectify. If I can get for £300 I will probably get done for peace of mind I suppose.
Also need to add that doing a bit of reading on the net suggests the USA models are protected (and fully covered for this) under a 60k power train warranty. How come we don't get that in the uk?
Because in the USA they actually have decent customer service and they wouldnt stand for it...Not like us Brits, we just say "oh well, just one of those things"....
We are chumps if you think about it.....
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Having full VWSH is in your favour pal,
It's one excuse that they can't use against you :wink:
Neil can you send me the guys Number and website where you got yours done please - and what was the amount you paid again?
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Having full VWSH is in your favour pal,
It's one excuse that they can't use against you :wink:
Neil can you send me the guys Number and website where you got yours done please - and what was the amount you paid again?
Pm on way :wink:
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I can not believe this, not another.....How many is that now. Fricking ticking time bomb. Did you have any signs of it happening, rattle or owt?
Think im gonna pay that £269 and get it sorted before mine goes...
What was age and milage?
RocketRoss, if I were you I'd get yours sorted pronto before it goes
Just sent this to JCT600 Peugeot who i bought it from with 1 years warranty in April
Hello Paul,
I would just like to bring an issue to your attention. In April I bought a VW Golf GTI 2.0l TSI from you guys.
Now over the past few months these cars (2.0l TSI Engine) have been suffering from timing chain failure problem. When it fails it causes catastrophic damage to the engine.
The whole engine needs to be stripped down and rebuilt / replaced with new parts. This is not a wear and tear part as it is supposed to last the life of the vehicle.
The problem is they are prone to early MK6 GTI's on 09, 59 and 10 plate cars (mine is a 59 plate). VW admit there was a design flaw and have updated the part twice since 09 but they are not willing to do a recall.
I am avid forum member on 3 Golf GTI forums and as you can see from the below post this is becoming a major problem. Over the 3 sites I visit, 3 GTI's have failed in two weeks.
VW have stuck them all with bills ranging from £1500 - £2500!!! dependant on damage.
At this point i am very scared, my engine sounds like it may have the early warning symptoms before it fails. As of now the engine is ok , but to prevent the timing chain failing it needs tightening and upgrading to the latest revision.
The cost of the upgrade from a VW specialist is around £480 all in. Now with the car been under warranty for another 7 months with you guys i think it would be a smart move to take preventative measures now, rather than it having to go under warranty.
I would be willing to contribute towards the costs as I am certain this needs to be sorted sooner rather than later.
Thanks for reading this email, I would be grateful if you could respond as soon as possible.
Thanks
Regards
Ross
Keep us updated on what response you get. Not sure they'll go for doing a preventative upgrade, but you've got nothing to lose. Seems that VW would rather plead ignorance and wait for these to go then have you plead your case! It's a wise move to budget for getting the upgrade done yourself in case you get no joy. Might mean you have to hold off on a few mods for a while but better than shelling out for a new engine.
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This is terrible! I'm really sorry to read yet another story like this.
I'm really debating getting rid of my 10 plate now. Won't buy another VW again i don't think.
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After reading that it affects cars up to the 10 plate, should my September 60 plate have the revised part fitted?
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After reading that it affects cars up to the 10 plate, should my September 60 plate have the revised part fitted?
On a VW Technical bulletin it says 2008-2013
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/ryanrich/TSB.jpg)
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Oh sugar......
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Oh sugar......
I have heard that cars from just after mine, were fitted with the upgraded part.
I picked mine up on the 25th June 2010, but the car was built in March.
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Oh sugar......
I have heard that cars from just after mine, were fitted with the upgraded part.
I picked mine up on the 25th June 2010, but the car was built in March.
I think if you call the dealer they can confirm the part no fitted to your vehicle and so will confirm if its the new one or not.
But apparently the new ones aren't fault free.
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I checked with my dealer and they couldn't guarantee that it was or wasn't affected. Mine was delivered July 2nd 2010, built after the build change (week 22?)
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How will I find out when mine was built?
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I could tell mine was going I've been listening to it for 3 x months. If it starts rough with a few seconds of rattle then its likely starting to go. Mine never did this then ironically after I started reading about it, it started doing it.
But only after its been sat a while so say if you popped into a shop to grab something and then started it would start smoothly, if that makes sense.
If these syptems start then I would advise calling VWCC logging it then arrange for a new one. From what I've read even the revised ones can fail.
Alternatively perhaps extended warranty isn't a bad idea ....
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Jimmgc is spot on about the noise. Mine would rattle for a second or so on cold start up and then run as normal. You could literally turn it off 10 seconds later and the start up the second time would be fine. Mine sounded awful on first start up after we were away for a fortnight last month as an example and was fine for the rest of that day unless it was left a few hours.
I now reckon I would consider this a four year expense.
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The latest release of the Tensioner 06K109467K was only released on 01/05/12 so any fitted before this are probably at risk.
Interestingly there is an extra note with a red stop sign in ETKA saying "Spare part must not be used any more please use replacement"
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So after becoming a bit nervous about this I contacted two local vw dealers to find out a bit more and likely cost for new tensioner.
Couldn't believe it when the first rang me and tried to convince me my car was belt driven! Seriously from a dealer what a joke
And the second dealer consulted a technician who said listen for a clicking sound for 5 seconds on start up each morning. After a while he came back with an unitemised quote for £1300. Had an felling he did that as they haven't got a clue what I'm on about which may be a good sign this isn't effecting hundreds of cars.
I definitely can't afford that kind of money for something that might never fail. I just hope if the worst happens vw will honour most the bill.
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So after becoming a bit nervous about this I contacted two local vw dealers to find out a bit more and likely cost for new tensioner.
Couldn't believe it when the first rang me and tried to convince me my car was belt driven! Seriously from a dealer what a joke
And the second dealer consulted a technician who said listen for a clicking sound for 5 seconds on start up each morning. After a while he came back with an unitemised quote for £1300. Had an felling he did that as they haven't got a clue what I'm on about which may be a good sign this isn't effecting hundreds of cars.
I definitely can't afford that kind of money for something that might never fail. I just hope if the worst happens vw will honour most the bill.
Well when I PUSHED!! My GTI from the forecourt a load of mechanics came out to help and one asked what's happened to it, as soon as I said its been clicking on start up then it rough idled one day to never start again he said tensioner straight away, also the other 5 all nodded. That reaction doesn't come from people that have hardly seen it before.
You can probably get it done at an independent sure its only about £400-500.
Alternatively risk it that's what I decided to do after sound advice from VW :angry:
And hope the bill isn't too much
Also I'm pretty sure the fact the car has got FVSH has helped...
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Have they mentioned a rough cost to you yet.
Also my car seems to click a title after shut down , would anyway know if that should be of concern?
This potential problem is a joke vw should sort it for free
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Have they mentioned a rough cost to you yet.
Also my car seems to click a title after shut down , would anyway know if that should be of concern?
This potential problem is a joke vw should sort it for free
Never on shut down only start up, but I must stress that these were my symptoms but seem to match others.
As for cost unsure at this stage until they strip engine (next few days) it's only suspect tensioner but all sign point towards as we'll as errors thrown by car.
I'll update as soon as a price has negotiated I I think that's how this is going to play out, how good you are at it and what ammo you have to use against them, this point also works for them also.
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Im probably being paranoid about my clicking. I sure I can hear something clicking away but it's constant and does not go away after 5-10 seconds which suggests it may be normal
Hope you can sort a deal with the stealers mate.
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I have just wrote to VW regarding the issue, and again to see if they are willing to do anything on my 09 GTI as a preventative measure.
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I wonder if it's worth us starting a poll to see what percentage of us have had this problem?
What do you think guys?
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Im probably being paranoid about my clicking. I sure I can hear something clicking away but it's constant and does not go away after 5-10 seconds which suggests it may be normal
Hope you can sort a deal with the stealers mate.
mine does that mine has two noisy fuel injectors.
Listen near the cam cover if its noisy there theb worry.
As for when please read my previous posts on threads on here.
Its ONLY AT STARTUP AFTER THE CAR HAS RESTED AND HAS LOW OIL PRESSURE WERE IT USES THE RATCHET ON THE TENSIONER UNTIL OIL PRESSURE TAKES OVER THE TENSION.
It wont happen if you only stop for a short time as the tensioner tensions with oil pressure and drops back onto its ratchet when oil pressure is low ie when the car rests for a while.
Ill not explain it all fully as ive done it many many times already.
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The latest release of the Tensioner 06K109467K was only released on 01/05/12 so any fitted before this are probably at risk.
Interestingly there is an extra note with a red stop sign in ETKA saying "Spare part must not be used any more please use replacement"
out of curiosity does it say were else this part is used?
Is it also used on the audi version of the engine with both variable inlet and outlet valve timing?
The new mk7 engine?
Is it the same part on the 1.4?
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I dont really hang out on other forum like the Audi, Skoda and Seat, but are all their TSI engine suffering from the same failure?
Or is it just the VWs?
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The tensioner is the same part as used in Audi/Seat/Skoda 2.0 petrol engines.
However even going back to 2009 the Audi engine had the K revision fitted and not the N revision fitted to the Golf, Seat and Skoda.
The 1.4 engine uses a different part 03C109507AH
The MK7 has a different revision, 06K109467P
I take it this TSB has been shown before.
(http://www.thewindinglane.co.uk/images/mk6gti/misc/tsb.jpg)
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Maybe we should record the startup sound and compare.
Here is what mine sounds like Engine Start (http://www.thewindinglane.co.uk/images/mk6gti/misc/engineStart.avi)
Definitely a slight rattle before the oil pressure gets up but no more than I've heard from other chain driven engines.
To quote VW, "Sounds just like a Golf" :sick: :grin:
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The tensioner is the same part as used in Audi/Seat/Skoda 2.0 petrol engines.
However even going back to 2009 the Audi engine had the K revision fitted and not the N revision fitted to the Golf, Seat and Skoda.
The 1.4 engine uses a different part 03C109507AH
The MK7 has a different revision, 06K109467P
I take it this TSB has been shown before.
(http://www.thewindinglane.co.uk/images/mk6gti/misc/tsb.jpg)
This is for the American market though not the UK. I now its the same engine but unsure how I can use this with VWUK as ammo so to speak?
Any advice?
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Maybe we should record the startup sound and compare.
Here is what mine sounds like Engine Start (http://www.thewindinglane.co.uk/images/mk6gti/misc/engineStart.avi)
Definitely a slight rattle before the oil pressure gets up but no more than I've heard from other chain driven engines.
To quote VW, "Sounds just like a Golf" :sick: :grin:
No sound mate, or at least not on my PC!!
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Usually a Windows Media player problem.
I use This one (http://mpc-hc.org/) instead, plays everything.
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The tensioner is the same part as used in Audi/Seat/Skoda 2.0 petrol engines.
However even going back to 2009 the Audi engine had the K revision fitted and not the N revision fitted to the Golf, Seat and Skoda.
The 1.4 engine uses a different part 03C109507AH
The MK7 has a different revision, 06K109467P
I take it this TSB has been shown before.
(http://www.thewindinglane.co.uk/images/mk6gti/misc/tsb.jpg)
Thank you.
Interesting that the mk7 uses the same part number just a different revision.
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Maybe we should record the startup sound and compare.
Here is what mine sounds like Engine Start (http://www.thewindinglane.co.uk/images/mk6gti/misc/engineStart.avi)
Definitely a slight rattle before the oil pressure gets up but no more than I've heard from other chain driven engines.
To quote VW, "Sounds just like a Golf" :sick: :grin:
sounds the same as mine. Yours like mine seems to have a couple of noisy injectors.
I started mine this moring after a 3 week standing and it was worse than that.
But I had my ear on the top of the cam chain cover to see if I could hear anything. It sounded normal but the two centre fuel injectors in the centre of the engine rattled and clattered on like mad.
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Compared to my MK5 GTI it is virtually silent :laugh:
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Likewise. Mine definitely sounded worse than that before I got a new one fitted the other week.
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Just been told by my dealer they have ordered a new re-manufactured engine following the timing chain tensioner
failure - they originally built up the original engine with new parts but only the top end,but the service manager
said there was an issue with it.
Just wondering if anybody here who has had a new engine - was it brand new or re-manufactured ? - what is the
standard practice in these cases ? - I only found out it would be re-manufactured after I asked about fitting a new
clutch at the same time seeing as the car had done 40,000 miles - this would cost £382 inc vat just for the parts.
(includes release bearing,new stretch bolts etc)
Also wondering will it have the latest design of tensioner ?
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Just been told by my dealer they have ordered a new re-manufactured engine following the timing chain tensioner
failure - they originally built up the original engine with new parts but only the top end,but the service manager
said there was an issue with it.
Just wondering if anybody here who has had a new engine - was it brand new or re-manufactured ? - what is the
standard practice in these cases ? - I only found out it would be re-manufactured after I asked about fitting a new
clutch at the same time seeing as the car had done 40,000 miles - this would cost £382 inc vat just for the parts.
(includes release bearing,new stretch bolts etc)
Also wondering will it have the latest design of tensioner ?
Not sure mate, mine has been getting delayed due to me negotiating over the price IF the tensioner is the cause. Finally come to an argreement this evening and so the strip down should happen over the next few days. Once they know the tensioner is the cause then Iv'e been told a possible new engine so I assumed brand spanking new but I sure will ask IF this is the outcome.
Fingers crossed I'm just hoping my engines toast ...
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OK,thanks - does anybody know where my re-manufactured engine will come from when ordered by a main dealer - will it be just as good as a completely new engine ?
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The engines ordered from VW Main Dealers will be a new unit, sent from the factory.
Im sure some parts will be remanufactured, but you shouldnt have any worries, and it will have its usual guarantee.
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Hope this isn't the case with mine ......
(http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k600/J20HTR/D0CC5960-BDAB-456A-BFE4-E10CF7D0F3C6-269-0000001271CB7FAB_zps69a76f15.jpg)
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Jimmy what price did you negotiate in the end?
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Jimmy what price did you negotiate in the end?
£675 is the price we have settled on affectively 100% parts and 50% labour contribution. Although this deal only stands IF the tensioner is to blame and they aren't doing the strip till Monday. But after chatting with one of the main mechanics he's pretty certain its a new engine.
Just want my GTI back driving around in a 15 year old Peugeot 306 makes you realise how amazing it is....
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Jimmy what price did you negotiate in the end?
£675 is the price we have settled on affectively 100% parts and 50% labour contribution. Although this deal only stands IF the tensioner is to blame and they aren't doing the strip till Monday. But after chatting with one of the main mechanics he's pretty certain its a new engine.
Just want my GTI back driving around in a 15 year old Peugeot 306 makes you realise how amazing it is....
You've done pretty well for 50% labour. Keep us posted and good luck!
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thats a good result for a new engine! £675!
Does the MK5 suffer from anything like this? reading this has me worried!
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You've done pretty well for 50% labour. Keep us posted and good luck!
+1
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The tensioner is the same part as used in Audi/Seat/Skoda 2.0 petrol engines.
However even going back to 2009 the Audi engine had the K revision fitted and not the N revision fitted to the Golf, Seat and Skoda.
The 1.4 engine uses a different part 03C109507AH
The MK7 has a different revision, 06K109467P
I take it this TSB has been shown before.
(http://www.thewindinglane.co.uk/images/mk6gti/misc/tsb.jpg)
if the mk7 uses the same type part just another revision I think I will rule out owning a 7
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Cant believe people are actually forking out for this or at least such high costs!!
Cars must be of reasonable quality and therefore its parts must last beyond the warranty period.
Contact your local Trading Standards and they should help you push for either a complete near as damnit contribution
This situation smacks if the PD injector issue on the MK5 170 engine. It took letters to VOSA to get VAG to recognise that there was a problem
I feel sorry for those who have suffered :sad:
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Maybe everyone thats suffered should all rant on vw facebook and twitter pages like Richard E Grant did with the mini power steering failure did.
As they said on watchdog last night vosa is weak.
The issue is vw dont see the tensioner as a saftey related item as it only happens at low oil pressure /Cold start up.
So feel this is a suitable solution!
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Cant believe people are actually forking out for this or at least such high costs!!
Cars must be of reasonable quality and therefore its parts must last beyond the warranty period.
Contact your local Trading Standards and they should help you push for either a complete near as damnit contribution
This situation smacks if the PD injector issue on the MK5 170 engine. It took letters to VOSA to get VAG to recognise that there was a problem
I feel sorry for those who have suffered :sad:
Got to be worth a shot.
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Yeah sadly its not exactly safety related like the injector issue was but what I would be severely annoyed is the fact its on a TSB, so therefore a recognised problem and they do fcuk all about it :angry:
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At least VW are paying up when it happens, I have yet to hear of anyone who has not had some sort of compensation.
Unlike BMW who are just saying tough unless you are a high profile celebrity, but then from my experiences with BMW in the past it is no surprise.
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I recall Watchdog quoting that BMW was contributing to costs for vehicles with Main Dealer history or something similar.
I suspect this would be the same at VW.
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Volkswagen uk facebook page has some not so flattering coments on some of their posts.
Reference to rusting wings, dsg box failures and aftersales care.
Seems not all owners are happy :grin:
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Volkswagen uk facebook page has some not so flattering coments on some of their posts.
Reference to rusting wings, dsg box failures and aftersales care.
Seems not all owners are happy :grin:
Off to have a chuckle!
EDIT - Didn't see that many...mostly Fanboi posts.
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UPDATE:
So strip down completed on Tuesday and 100% confirmed tensioner has failed. Valve and cam damage so a new engine has been ordered and arrived today so should finally have her back just in time for the wknd :grin:
So as I have mentioned before the final settlement with VW was 100% parts and 50% labour however I had to really fight for this contribution, initially I was only offered the parts and was facing a £1350 bill (price for full strip down). This I was told would pay for diagnosis and if tensioner was at fault pay for the rebuild also.
The way it works is VW Germany cover the parts however will not put up cash for labour, that comes down to the dealership they basically make the decision to offer a discount and if they do then VWUK will put in also. This I have been told is a 70/30 split so in my case dealership has put 15% in VWUK 35%.
However I am told if the dealership refused then VWUK would refuse also so this puts a lot of the power into the local dealership you use!
It's also worth noting that I am 1.5 years out of warranty with 55,000 on the clock at time of fault!!
The fact I had logged an issue with VWUK about the tensioner and had mentioned a rattle at a recent service and the car had FVSH all helped in my negotiating. I also went down the not fit for purpose route which I feel helped a little also.
Ultimately this message is meant to serve anyone reading this in the future who has suffered from this fault and needs a base as to what to expect both in terms of service received and price to be paid. It's also worth noting that at any point VW could decide not to offer 100% parts and this could have a drastic affect on this price.
In hindsight after the 2 weeks of stress and worry I have gone through I would of replaced the tensioner however for me now I feel happy with a new engine for £675 which is only a little more than changing the tensioner would of been but I wouldn't gamble on this outcome for there are so many variables!
I aso must say the customer service i received during this issue with VWUK and the dealership has been really good and they have gone out of their way to keep me updated which I think says a lot for VW so thumbs up from me :smiley:
They have restored my faith and put the Mk 7 R back on my radar...
ps. anyone in the NE seeing a white GTI being drivin spiritedly ... its only me :cool:
Thanks for all the replies during this, now we just got to wait until the next one goes which I hope never but I'm not holding my breath.
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Glad you have come to a satisfactorily conclusion.
I still wouldn't be happy paying £600 if it was me but thats just me.
As long as your happy.
Ps
Did you see Mikes post earlier that the mk7 uses the same tensioner just a newer revision.
Poor engineering design imo so I have now ruled out any future EA888 variant engined cars for my family or me.
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Im just glad to have the car back, I was worrying about having a nice block of metal parked on the drive for next few month whilst I saved up!!
Missed that post although this time I would add the 2 extra years warranty and as soon as the 5th year arrive the Golf would be gone.
Peace of mind at least anyway!
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How much warranty do you get on the new engine? I assume 2 years parts and labour :undecided:
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How much warranty do you get on the new engine? I assume 2 years parts and labour :undecided:
Yeah 2 years on all new part numbers fitted!
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Sounds like a good result mate :cool:
Just a pity about the Nause while you wait and go through the various stages :sick:
I'm enjoying having mine back too :cool:
Sandy
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Glad its being sorted, and that's quite a good contribution tbh!
Touch wood mine doesnt fail, but if it does i'd be looking for the exact same sort of thing.
However im thinking of phoning up to get a VW Warranty anyway for peace of mind.
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Is there any possibility that your car insurance might cover you for your expenses to have it repaired?
Potentially might it have even covered the whole affair?
Might be worth looking in to.
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Is there any possibility that your car insurance might cover you for your expenses to have it repaired?
Potentially might it have even covered the whole affair?
Might be worth looking in to.
No this can't be done due to it being a mechanical failure. Plus it would just affect premiums if i could anyway so probably wouldn't be worth it in the long run.
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Hope this isn't the case with mine ......
(http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k600/J20HTR/D0CC5960-BDAB-456A-BFE4-E10CF7D0F3C6-269-0000001271CB7FAB_zps69a76f15.jpg)
Is your car for sale on pistonheads?
Any update on what was wrong with yours?
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No not mine for sale mate, vw blamed carbon build up in the exhaust but I think they may have put too much oil in on its service the day before and it's been sucked through the breather hose.
It seems to be running fine at the minute.
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Good to hear its ok and not terminal.
As were similar areas may I ask what dealer? PM if you prefer.
Thanks
Geoff.
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I haven't been on here much lately, I have been avoiding the forum trying to save money! :whistle:
Anyway I cant believe there are more tension failures leading to all these catastrophic engine failures. :cry: :cry:
Like a few people have suggested I have also been in touch with VW customer care (via email) and stated my concerns and asked if they are going to be doing anything about it or offer a reduced price to get the new tensionr fitted.
Will see what their reply is :whistle: :whistle:
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I haven't been on here much lately, I have been avoiding the forum trying to save money! :whistle:
Anyway I cant believe there are more tension failures leading to all these catastrophic engine failures. :cry: :cry:
Like a few people have suggested I have also been in touch with VW customer care (via email) and stated my concerns and asked if they are going to be doing anything about it or offer a reduced price to get the new tensionr fitted.
Will see what their reply is :whistle: :whistle:
can you PM the email that you sent, as i would like to send one similar to yours.
Thanks
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I don't understand why they don't just put a delay into the firing of the engine on start up and let the starter motor build the oil pressure. This must be able to be done in the software. Surely it fails on ignition and the resulting power produced by the engine causes the problem. If failure did occur on the starter motor (which I would doubt) the resulting damage would be far less
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I don't understand why they don't just put a delay into the firing of the engine on start up and let the starter motor build the oil pressure. This must be able to be done in the software. Surely it fails on ignition and the resulting power produced by the engine causes the problem. If failure did occur on the starter motor (which I would doubt) the resulting damage would be far less
Wouldn't really work.
It fails at shutdown. As oil pressure reduces the tensioner falls back on its inbuilt ratchet to keep the tension on the chain. If the ratchet is faulty the tension comes off the chain. When you go to start the car the chain slips due to no or lack of tension on the chain. Oil pressure build the chain becomes tensioned normally a couple of teeth out. The ecu notices this and retimes the cams (Stupidly) to keep the car running.
What they should do is reprogram so as soon as the timings off the car shuts down and disconnects the starter and flags engine light on the dash.
What they should have also done in a new design like the mk7 was fit a sprung loaded standard mechanical tensioner too like everyone else does.
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Thanks Snoopy, understand that but isn't the ratchet there until oil pressure builds. If you can build pressure it would reduce the need for the ratchet or am I missing something :undecided:
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True if you could run the oil pump by iteslf to get pressue it would work.
but to do so would meen the engine turning over. Which would cause the chain to move, which at that time would be not tensioned.
Also depending how much tension has come off the chain while standing there is no guarantee retensioning it with oil pressure that it would retension on exactly the same teeth.
The way they have done it is a not great imho. Even that ratchet when working perfect may not give it enough tension as the chain and teeth are not really man enough they should have been much deeper teeth to reduce the risk if it slipping imo.
Its all build to risk v cost sadly.
They lost me as a mk7 customer because of this but they wont care plenty of people to replace others like me.
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I haven't been on here much lately, I have been avoiding the forum trying to save money! :whistle:
Anyway I cant believe there are more tension failures leading to all these catastrophic engine failures. :cry: :cry:
Like a few people have suggested I have also been in touch with VW customer care (via email) and stated my concerns and asked if they are going to be doing anything about it or offer a reduced price to get the new tensionr fitted.
Will see what their reply is :whistle: :whistle:
can you PM the email that you sent, as i would like to send one similar to yours.
Thanks
I don't have a copy of it sorry, I sent it to Customer services via the VW website so it was a message rather than an email. I have a voicemail from them and need to ring them back on Monday
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I also sent them an email but got a phone call back and all they said was if your worried and it's noisy, get it booked in to be looked at and if found at fault the goodwill process can then be started.
Mine hasn't got any fault yet but I was just asking them if they would replace as preventative maintenance but don't seem interested..
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So this issue is not going away and so a bit more info for future failures:
My Case Ref with VWCC - 09-022091
This you can use and have all info linked to your case
£675 total paid! (This seems to be floating around from £500-£1300)
Others may want to add their info also gives people more ammo when/if the time comes..
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I also sent them an email but got a phone call back and all they said was if your worried and it's noisy, get it booked in to be looked at and if found at fault the goodwill process can then be started.
Mine hasn't got any fault yet but I was just asking them if they would replace as preventative maintenance but don't seem interested..
Pretty much what I was told today. VW rang up and said they are aware of several failures and that they monitor various forums. But at least my message and call has been logged so I have proof of my concerns :rolleyes:
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Interesting read.
Mate just had an oil pump go on a Bluemotion MK6 he got off his dad. Just out of warrenty and got offered goodwill etc and would have to pay round 800ish.
His dad responded by cancelling last minute his brand new Tiguan order and said the dealerships an arsehole as they use them for all servicing for the last few years on their cars (he buys a new one ever couple years and both sons have Golfs) and had em all from new.
All of a sudden phone rings and low and behold the guy spoke to his manager and managed to get it done for free. Thing he strung the cancelled order for a bit. :grin: