GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => General discussion => Topic started by: >>Mart<< on 27 August 2006, 09:33
-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1991-VOLKSWAGEN-GOLF-SYNCRO-4x4-RED-1-8-non-gti_W0QQitemZ290021351877QQihZ019QQcategoryZ9873QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
-
Would make a top project car with an engine swap and suspension mods. How do the trnsfer boxes hold out on these cars??
CheeRS
Dave...
-
Synchros have the weakest of the 4wd systems avaliable, and they are not a permanent 4x4 either, they only kick in when one of the rear wheels loses traction. Deffo not the best system to put loads of power through. Need a rallye, or ltd drive train to do it really, and neither of those are easy parts to come by.
Either that or mutilate a haldex system off one of the newer 4motion motors ( i.e. mk4 golf, Audi S3 )
-
the question I have about these syncros is...is it the same 4wd system thats on a normal syncro, like the one on that auction, that they used to put on G60 syncro's or is it the same as whats on a rallye? :undecided:
-
This is an uneducated guess but from SLicks words I would say that the system is wek due to being really a FWD set up adapted to take 4WD? Menaing the engine lies transversely with a tricky transfer box that can go bang easily.
Rallye could be (guessing again?) a North South engine set up as in RWD and so more suited to 4WD applications. Or as he says go for the designed set up as in Quattro cars.
Persoanlly I would buy a Rallye or Coupe/A3 Quattro.
CheeRS
-
golf engines are all mounted the same way, side ways (cant remember if thats transverse or if its long ways thats transverse).
-
i seem to remember someone telling me the carb synchro gear is useless after 200bhp.. while the rallye/g60 synchro is good for 300. something to do with independantly lubricated rear diff and stronger drive shafts. cant remember the details it was at a weekend show and everyone knows my state of mind at those things :grin:
-
Also to do with it being non permanent, as they work by heating up the oil in the rear diff when spinning fronts are detected to spread the power.
-
makes sense, thanks.
-
The Syncro is the same system as the Rallye, G60 and Ltd.
IIRC the higher power Syncros have a higher-torque viscous coupling (VC) at the back. The rear diff is pretty much the same, though and all are independently lubricated.
The main difference Rallye to Syncro transmission-wise is that the Syncro has a rod-change box, the design of which is much weaker - the Rallye is cable-change, which is a lot more robust. The two boxes DO have a transfer box to take power to the back, but it's not known as particularly weak. There are a couple of differently lubricated (independent/non-independently lubed) transfer boxes that were fitted to the Rallye.
The Syncro-system (as mentioned above) relies on a VC. This is a torque sensing device, mounted in front of the rear diff, which has viscous fluid in it. The action of the fluid is similar to a cornflour-water mix, if you stir it slowly it's liquid, if you try to stir it fast then it goes solid. This device means that the 4WD is controlled entirely by driving conditions, with no input from the driver. It is better described as 'pseudo-full-time' rather than 'part-time'. This is exactly the same as the G60, Ltd and Rallye. Heat can improve the response time of the unit, but it works from cold.
The driving experience of the Syncro is hugely different to a GTI or other 2WD Golf. Like the Rallye, Ltd or G60 Syncro the carb Syncro shares independent rear suspension and also has the stiffer high transmission tunnel bodyshell identical to the G60 Syncro and similar to the (massively reinforced and very heavy) Rallye shell. With a Rallye ARB on the back to dial out the standard 'buckets of understeer' handling and a few other tweaks the Golf Syncro will run rings around many other cars, especially on back roads, or in the wet. A well tweaked Syncro would be able to keep up with a Rallye, too - it's a LOT lighter.
If you kept the original gearbox, fitted 280mm brakes on the front and the 16V master cylinder, maybe some stiffer springs and the Rallye rear ARB, swapped out the GU head for a PB head with a nice lairy cam and fitted a Weber 32/34DTML carb you'd have yourself a cheap, light sleeper that would be a lot of fun to drive, too.
That's what I have, that's how I know how good it is.
Sure as hell beats trying to source obsolete parts for a lardy Rallye.
-
fair point. well made.
but i would rather have a lardy (sic) rallye :wink:
-
The Syncro is the same system as the Rallye, G60 and Ltd.
IIRC the higher power Syncros have a higher-torque viscous coupling (VC) at the back. The rear diff is pretty much the same, though and all are independently lubricated.
The main difference Rallye to Syncro transmission-wise is that the Syncro has a rod-change box, the design of which is much weaker - the Rallye is cable-change, which is a lot more robust. The two boxes DO have a transfer box to take power to the back, but it's not known as particularly weak. There are a couple of differently lubricated (independent/non-independently lubed) transfer boxes that were fitted to the Rallye.
The Syncro-system (as mentioned above) relies on a VC. This is a torque sensing device, mounted in front of the rear diff, which has viscous fluid in it. The action of the fluid is similar to a cornflour-water mix, if you stir it slowly it's liquid, if you try to stir it fast then it goes solid. This device means that the 4WD is controlled entirely by driving conditions, with no input from the driver. It is better described as 'pseudo-full-time' rather than 'part-time'. This is exactly the same as the G60, Ltd and Rallye. Heat can improve the response time of the unit, but it works from cold.
The driving experience of the Syncro is hugely different to a GTI or other 2WD Golf. Like the Rallye, Ltd or G60 Syncro the carb Syncro shares independent rear suspension and also has the stiffer high transmission tunnel bodyshell identical to the G60 Syncro and similar to the (massively reinforced and very heavy) Rallye shell. With a Rallye ARB on the back to dial out the standard 'buckets of understeer' handling and a few other tweaks the Golf Syncro will run rings around many other cars, especially on back roads, or in the wet. A well tweaked Syncro would be able to keep up with a Rallye, too - it's a LOT lighter.
If you kept the original gearbox, fitted 280mm brakes on the front and the 16V master cylinder, maybe some stiffer springs and the Rallye rear ARB, swapped out the GU head for a PB head with a nice lairy cam and fitted a Weber 32/34DTML carb you'd have yourself a cheap, light sleeper that would be a lot of fun to drive, too.
That's what I have, that's how I know how good it is.
Sure as hell beats trying to source obsolete parts for a lardy Rallye.
Mr Hell how you doing? Nice to see you on here too!
Nick
(also Horney on 80-90 and brickyard)
-
how much do all the 4wd golfs weigh?
-
Mr Hell how you doing? Nice to see you on here too!
Nick
(also Horney on 80-90 and brickyard)
Ah yeah I was just looking at that name thinking why on earth is his post count only one, he posts loads. It's from the wedge sites, ah I'll get back to snoozing at my desk now :)
-
It's OK Tobz, it's nearly home time!
Nick
-
very informative was that Diamond Hell, thanks
-
I have indeed, just arrived.
I'm afraid you'll spot me on any forum as Diamond Hell, unlike some other people I use the same username everywhere.
I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it here.
Here to help etc
Please remember the 'etc' bit.
Just finished fitting the 280mm front stoppers to my Syncro tonight. It no longer stops, it now GURT stops! :evil:
Weights:
2dr G60 2wd 1080 kilos, 2dr G60 Syncro 1165 kilos
4dr G60 2wd 1105 kilos, 4dr G60 Syncro 1190 kilos
I'd presume the carb Syncro is a little less.
Mine will be getting progressively lighter in the next few weeks - I'm still hoping I might make it to the Norschleife on the last weekend of September. No point carrying too much trim out there, eh?
-
fair play mate... was lookin at buyin one last year... synchro floorpan/running gear , fitted to a 3door shell running a 2.0 16v on mechanical fuel injection (old mk2 16v stylie) with k star piggy back box etc... needed tinkering with to finish but loads of money spent plus elctric recaros and stuff.... couldnt afford it at the time though.. told others but they never snapped it up.. wonder where it is now...
:cry: :cry:
-
I was told the syncro drivetrain was a lot weaker than the G60 syncro/rallye one and with my intent to 20vT it would only mash it to bits. I did have a 3dr syncro with rallye drivetrain on the cards too, but as with everything funds were too tight to buy it.
-
have you got any pictures of your syncro diamond hell?
-
Sadly not as is now - I've just put a different set of front springs on at the same time as the 280mm stoppers, so it's sitting a lot happier and lower at the front now.
I'll try to grab a picture tomorrow AM on my PDA. Problem is I had the camera out while I was swapping the front brakes on the drive - doing a 'how to' and I think some little prick swiped it on their way past :angry:
Ah well I was looking for an excuse to replace the Olympus Mju anyway.
The only weak thing about the Syncro drivetrain vs the Rallye is the main gearbox. Remember - by going 20VT you're adding one hell of a lot of weight and you're only going to use that extra power in a straight line and straight lines are boring.
Twisties are where it's at and as light as possible works better in the twisties.
I'm hoping to be at Edition 38 this weekend with my other Syncro.... but that's a bus :wink:
Should be easy to spot, mind.
-
If you spot a brown/beige bus parked in this forum area at E38 pop in and say hello Diamond. Haven't met any of the club80-90 lot yet.
-
I'm not one of the 'Club 80-90 lot' at the moment - I was banned for an unspecified term for asking difficult questions. :wink:
These are my Syncro ratters:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/diamondhell/GolfOnStreet.jpg)
For me, it's all about budget performance, y'see - hence breathed on motor and mechanicals in the silver Golf and a Subaru motor in the back of the bus.... not that anyone would know until they heard the noise coming out the back of the bus as it clears off in front of them, or until the Golf zaps past them on the inside lane of a roundabout (yes you, Mr off-boost-Impreza-driver).
-
I thought I hadn't seen you on there in a while. Not to worry though I find 80-90 a bit too "Pipe and Slipperish" outside of the tech forums. Brickyard is far more my bunch of people.
Nick
-
You should try www.busgoons.com .
Possibly less 'attitude' than Baxter's mob.